1. Warming up with three good things
2. Watching "Uprooted" (in response to your questions about Stamp Paid and the red ribbon)
- What does this video make you wonder?
- What does it help you understand about the Reconstruction Era that you didn't understand before?
- What does it help you understand about Beloved and/or Morrison's purpose in writing it?
3. Trying out a "Almost Silent" Socratic by listening to Toni Morrison read the three, first-person narratives in Part 2, Chapters 2-5 (Audiobook: Section 13; 8:45:14)
- How does Morrison use voices (her physical voice and her narrative voices) to portray something central to each female character?
- Every now and then, pause and just listen. Listen until you hear something you haven't really heard before...then type.
4. Wrapping up with epiphanies, questions, and kudos
HW:
1. For Tuesday: E-mail me your thesis if you're a paper person; submit your proposal if you're a project person. You may also conference with me in lieu of either of these.
2. Wednesday will be a paper/project work day.
3. For Friday: Finish Part 2 and read Chapter 1 in Part 3; complete and print a reading ticket (I challenge you to try something new since there are only two reading assignments left). We will start Friday with Socratic musical chairs.
Heads-up! December 12-13: Poetry papers and project are due. Please not that you will NOT be able to revise these because you won't get them back until your final.
Watching this video make me re-think the symbolism behind the tree on Sethe's back...possible reference to the lynchings? Should all carry this on our backs?
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to me that these people had to undergo such horrors, yet Sethe insists that that it is a beautiful thing. I think her love for the tree represents how the white man beat the slaves yet they still survived, many died but as a whole the evilness that they underwent wasn't enough to sink them. It is beautiful that they overcame such horrors and in Sethe's case, escaped to the North.
DeleteIf anyone is interested in listening to or reading the lyrics of a song that strongly relates to the topic of lynching and Beloved in general, check out Strange Fruit. I personally like how Billy Holiday sings it the best, but there are many great versions out there. A really emotional and powerful song with some horrifying imagery.
ReplyDeleteYes! We actually did a lesson on this at the Cherry Creek AP Institute. I might try to bring it in during Invisible Man...
DeleteI thought that the very first page of our reading assignment was really interesting and a major turning point in the novel. I may be wrong bu I think it is the first time Sethe says the words "she is my daughter." Think from that point on things are different, everyone knows everyone else, for who they truly are, Beloved Sethe and Denver have all begun a journey now. As the three of them.
ReplyDeleteThe "Uprooted" clip makes me wonder how many black families today go back to personally important landmarks like the Miles family did.
ReplyDeleteI keep thinking about the idea of the family tree and how many people in our country have a family tree with bloody roots. One of the most moving parts of "Uprooted" to me is watching them collect the soil from the base of the tree; it's the only they have to reclaim their great-grandfather's body.
DeleteI also think this is very interesting and sad. It is crazy that the only memories and things that the families have to hold on to are mostly negative. I found it extremely sad when the lady in "Uprooted" was hugging the tree that her great grand father had been lynched on. It really just seems messed up.
DeleteI think it is such a brave and painful thing for black families to address the horrifying events that happened to their family not that long ago. I wonder how this book shed light onto these events that were really pushed into the shadows.
DeleteAs we were watching Uprooted, I noticed how present the pain caused by the horrors of the Reconstruction is generations later. How does Morrison convey the lasting impact of slavery?
ReplyDeleteThere's a great line in the film about bringing the past into the present...I wonder if that's what Morrison is trying to do with Beloved. I do think that in order to understand race issues today, we can't ignore slavery, the Reconstruction Era, etc. There needs to be an accountability for an unacceptable past.
DeleteI think that the biggest way Morrison conveyed the lasting impact of slavery is showing how slavery didn't end when it was abolished. Even when it stopped, the impact that it had on people would stick with them forever, especially the way Morrison writes about Sethes experience and how is still hasn't left her or her children.
DeleteIt has been bothering me to see into Sethe's heart about murdering her daughter. She would rather kill her daughter, than let her die in slavery. Why does she feel taking her life is better than anyone else taking her life??
ReplyDeleteI think that in Sethe's mind it had something to do with the element of control. Earlier Stamp Paid said that freedom was being able to choose what you love and how much you love it which really highlighted the importance of choice to me. I think that Sethe wanted to keep some element of control in her life which led her to the decision that her taking her daughter's life was better than someone else because it enabled her to control what her daughter knew of life.
DeleteI thought this was a really interesting ethical issue. To me it is as though Sethe decided that being dead and free is better than being alive and enslaved. Which I think is the point Morrison wants us to see: slavery was so bad people would rather die than be a slave and undergo such racism.
DeleteWhile it could have been some of her "motherly instinct", it seems to almost be out of her own fear. She still has lasting effects of slavery impressed upon her. That wouldn't ever be able to change after the way she was treated. Sethe feels this wasn't a murder that was done in cold blood but out of love. She sees it as protecting them rather than hurting them. So her taking their life is her releasing them from whatever pain they still had to go through in their lives.
DeleteDo you think Sethes action of killing her daughter is more or less just after seeing her side?
ReplyDeleteI think I am able to see where she was coming from, to want to save her daughter from slavery. I don't think I understand why murdering her was the right choice, but I can see that it was out of love I guess. Little messed up. But she is trying to make it right now with Beloved coming back.
DeleteI don't think that Sethe's action is any more or less just after seeing her perspective, but I think it is interesting how Sethe knew she would get the change to explain herself one day. In my opinion I thought the Sethe only cared about Beloved's acceptance/ forgiveness, and then she could lift her burden. As long as Beloved stayed after she explained herself she would believe that what she did was the right. However, as she slowly releases this burden she is becoming more and more isolated and blind.
DeleteLast Thursday, we focused on what Beloved could symbolize. She could be the actual resurrected daughter or she could be a symbol for all slaves or a vampire. Before reading these chapters, I thought that Beloved was certainly the resurrected daughter. These chapter changed that perspective. Beloved constantly talked about the "black and angry dead" and also about the feeling of being contained, trapped in blood and darkness. This brought me back to the beginning of Beloved when we saw the slideshow of the ships that brought the slaves. Therefore, Beloved could symbolize how all salves were treated and how horrible their journey to America was. I began to see Beloved as a representation of all slaves because she shared the struggles of all.
ReplyDeleteI think that this interpretation is also strengthened by the fact that Beloved can't really remember where she came from and seems ripped from her home. The parallel with Beloved losing her past and the fact that slaves lost their past and homes seems like a strong parallel that cannot be ignored. Sethe and Denver have a history and family that they know and remember, but Beloved can only remember how she got there and in small fragments, not her home or anything else.
DeleteDenver, in chapter 3, clearly shows some animosity for Sethe. Why does Morrison wait until this late in the novel to show Denver's dislike and fear of her mother?
ReplyDeleteI was surprised by Denver's fear, too. It makes sense, but I hadn't considered it before this chapter.
DeleteI got the feeling that Denver was trying to deceive Sethe into believing that Denver liked her or at least didn't dislike her. The delayed introduction in the book helps to develop this characteristic of secret dislike that Denver has. I thought it was interesting that Denver is waiting for someone to save her but is also looking to save other people. To me it seems like she believes herself a savior.
DeleteIt seems that Sethe is forgetting Denver in her love for Beloved, what does this suggest about "thick love" or the theory that Beloved is a vampire?
ReplyDeleteDenver admits that her love for Sethe was out of fear, and looking back into the previous chapters it didn't seem as if Sethe and Denver had a solid or real mother and daughter relationship. I can understand the theory of how Beloved is a vampire, and takes the love that Sethe has for Denver for herself. It seems as if Denver is slowly being forgotten and that her relationship with Sethe is more deteriorated than it was before.
DeleteThe idea of not being able to retrace your family from the video we just watched directly relates back to Beloved. In the story Beloved has no background, she comes out of the water as though she is reborn and has no sure back story. She is a direct relation to this along with many slaves. They were ripped from their homes and forced to be separated from their families. Even while Beloved can be interpreted as a ghost, she still is a symbol that could embody many different slave's pasts. Sethe almost loses her background as her mother tries to abandon her as to escape slavery. This would have put Sethe in the exact same position, a baby that has no past or background because the people around them were either ripped away or had to leave. Background was something that was almost missing from black culture at the time. Denver talks about fragmented families, how her brother's ran away out of fear of their mom, and how it is natural for black families to be fragmented and in chaos. This makes it hard to create almost any culture whether it be personal culture or racial culture. The absence of a background leaves nothing to refer to or to remember.
ReplyDeleteYes--well said. I think this is why Stamp Paid carries the ribbon around--to remember, to hold someone accountable, perhaps.
DeleteI think the "if I hadn't killed her she would have died" brings a new meaning into Beloved's murder. Sethe believed/convinced herself that Beloved would have truly died no matter what, so she took matters into her own hands and as a mother took her baby's life before anyone else could. Is that the motherly thing to do? Does Sethe's stream of consciousness inspire any more compassion for her?
ReplyDeleteMy level of empathy for Sethe shifts throughout Part 2; I'll be eager to hear what you think of her by the time you get to Part 3.
DeleteI think the stream of consciousness does create more compassion for Sethe because it emphasizes that she acted out of love for her children. However, I think it also reveals that she does not fully understand the impact of her action. I was surprised that Sethe repeatedly claimed that she doesn't "have to explain a thing" to Beloved (236). Clearly, Denver does not understand her mother's decision. I would not assume the baby/Beloved, who makes 124 "spiteful" and "full of baby's venom" at the beginning of the book, understand's and accepts Sethe's actions. I also think the quote you included is interesting because it suggests that Sethe believes slavery inevitably leads to a truer or more complete death than she caused by killing her daughter.
DeleteI thought that Morrison's use of the word "killing" versus "dying" helped emphasize that Beloved would have suffered more if Sethe had let her live than had killed her. Killing someone suggests one swift action with little pain, but dying suggests that a more passive action, one that is prolonged and possibly painful. I think that Sethe's consciousness does inspire more compassion for her because the reader can see that Sethe truly thought that she had no other option and that killing her child was the best option.
DeleteThat line stood out to me too... I also felt more empathy for Sethe and it was interesting to see how she really felt about it since this is the first time we get to really see her point of view. I think it is a very twisted motherly instinct to kill your daughter so that she doesn't have to go through the suffering that you did. To me it just showed how to Sethe death is a better option than slavery, I wonder what others who went through similar experiences to Sethe would do? Paul D leaves when he finds out, so he doesn't seem to agree with her, but what would other characters such as Hal think?
DeleteI think that the way that Sethe justifies it seems more rational than the action itself suggests. The way that she talks about her own mother and schoolteacher shows that she has a horrifying view of what slavery could be. Halle's line about Garner's slavery and Schoolteacher's being just as bad also brings in an interesting side for her.
DeleteLooking back to how Sethe was at the beginning of the book vs. how she is now is a drastic change. She used to never look back on her past, talk about her past, and was oblivious about who Beloved really was. In part 2, is where we see Sethe truly accept her past, her actions, and accept Beloved as her daughter.
ReplyDeleteWho do you think Sethe owes this to? Did Beloved bring on this change, or Paul D or Denver? Or even Sethe herself?
Delete@mackenziej2018 I think it was Baby Suggs' words "lay it all down" that sparked a change in Sethe, after this I saw a change in Sethe, a happiness, for she finally can see past her sword and shield to see Beloved is her own.
DeleteI think that Sethe finally believes that she can move on from what she has done in her past, she can finally let it stop haunting her so she begins to "lay it all down." However, I think that there is something false/weird about how she is now able to let it all go, I'm not sure what it is but I have a sense that she is going about moving on in the wrong way- she seems to think that because beloved came back she doesn't have to worry about it rather than her moving on by herself.
DeleteWatching the Uproot video had a deep emotional connection with me. Their pursuit to find the truth and see where her relatives died strongly connects to the many family members I lost in the holocaust. Just as they went to the tree where he was lynched, Jewish people from around the world go to Auschwitz to try to find answers. This video subtly highlighted the brutality that african americans endured.
ReplyDeleteIn these last few chapters we got an insight into all three minds, why is it that Denver and Sethe have clearer thoughts but Beloved is more scattered, could it be Morrison trying to keep it more open ended or is she trying to tell us something about Beloved?
ReplyDeleteI noticed this as well, along with the scattered thoughts there is also no end punctuation. I thought that it could be indicative of the fact that Beloved's state of mind is still that of a two year old baby and that her mental processes are not on the same level as the other two
DeleteBeloved's scattered nature could be an indication that she doesn't know exactly what she wants. She doesn't have an accurate understanding of the world and continually says things that aren't true or coherent. This might be why she has her lines about how Sethe is hers and that she wants Sethe to smile but at the same time is the parasite that we talked about earlier. Her context is strangely loving but her tone as Morrison talks is sharp and biting. I feel like her inconsistent nature establishes that she is either conflicted about what she is going to do or maybe that she doesn't know who she is and is trying to decide whether or not she will be good or bad. The lack of periods suggests to me a sort of continuous rambling thought that has the purpose of trying to find an answer.
DeleteWhat is the significance for the almost complete lack of punctuation in Chapter 22 (Beloved's perspective)?
ReplyDeleteI think Denver's narrative is the one with the most structured grammar and sentence structure (I personally found her chapter the easiest to read). Perhaps because she was born in a boat on the river and never had to experience slavery, she is somewhat freer than the other characters...other than the memories that have told and retold to her.
DeleteThis is an interesting question and I would've never thought of. But to answer your question, I think that the lack of punctuation might resemble our first time fully seeing the flood of acceptance and reflection that Sethe reveals without showing fear or leaving out fragments of the past.
DeleteI interpreted the lack of periods as a continue thought that never completely stops. The only thing she is sure of is the first sentence that ends with a period. The other sentences lack periods and therefore run into each other as if they are thoughts bouncing into each other to uncover truth. It may be that Beloved is trying to figure something out and is strangely conflicted.
DeleteAfter watching "Uprooted," I was able to get a sense of the monsters that lie inside all of us and the things we are actually capable of. And this makes me wonder about Sethe and her true self. After reading Sethe's perspective, I noticed how she was never sorry about killing her daughter - she was almost "happy" about it. She never mourned or grieved over her baby's death. She also seemed to blame everyone else for the baby's death rather than herself, so does this reveal a possible "monster" inside of Sethe?
ReplyDeleteI think that the "I am Beloved and she is mine" makes Beloved less of a person and more of a presence. Thoughts? I thought it was a weird way to start two chapters, and want to know what the meaning is and how this helps build Beloved as a character.
ReplyDeleteI agree that phrase makes Beloved seem more like a presence or maybe even a possession. I think that this helps build Beloved's character, because I think that Morrison is trying to convey the idea that Beloved isn't truly there, but represents Sethe accepting her past. But i'm not quite sure.
DeleteWhat is "a hot thing"? Is this the hatchet/axe that cut her throat?
ReplyDeleteI thought that it could be Love, either Sethe's for Beloved or vice versa
DeleteI interpreted this to be death.
DeleteWhat do you think the significance is of the "men without skin" in Beloved's chapter?
ReplyDeleteIt depends on how you interpret this scene. If you're reading it as a scene about the experience of the slave, I think the men without skin are white men.
DeleteIf you're reading this as some kind of hell/purgatory scene, then they are perhaps supernatural and/or demonic.
Other interpretations?
I was super confused on that one too. I think maybe Morrison is trying to get us to think they are dead. Like skeletons? Which relates to Beloved because in her own way she is undead too.
DeleteI'm not exactly sure, but I thought it might refer to white men (the lack of color making them appear "without skin"). I think this phrase is interesting because it conveys them primarily as lacking something.
DeleteMy thoughts are that it has something to do with having thin skin. They never had to feel the pain that many of the slaves in the story have nor do they have the deep physical markings on their skin that represent their pain. Maybe Toni is reminding us the strength of the slave characters like Sethe.
DeleteWhen Beloved describes the dark and cramped room, is she describing a slave ship, or a kind of grave or womb she was reborn from?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think Morrison is suggesting about possession? The chapters repeat the phrase "she is mine" or "you are mine" very frequently and possession is an important part of slaver as well, but I am unsure as to what she is suggesting.
ReplyDeleteAs slaves were deprived of possession--even over their own bodies--I can understand why Sethe, Beloved, and Denver are determined to possess Beloved / the past. But, I think Morrison is criticizing this to some extent. This desire for the past to be "mine" is also isolating Sethe, Paul D, and perhaps even Stamp Paid and Ella. There needs to be a coming together to share what's "mine."
DeleteWhat is the significance of Sethe "cutting off" Denver's head every night on pages 243 and 244? What could this mean?
ReplyDeleteOn page 243 there's a passage that starts: "She cut my head off every night. Howard and Buglar told me she would and she did.". I had no idea what to make of this, especially with quotes like "When she finishes the combing and starts the braiding, I get sleepy. I want to go to sleep but I know if I do I won't wake up." Does anyone have an idea what to make of this unnerving bit?
ReplyDeleteI think she's scared of Sethe murdering her. She doesn't know what her mother is or what exactly drove her to murder Beloved.
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ReplyDeleteI think that skin has a lot to do with human characteristics and so my thoughts are that maybe Morrison is trying to say that the "men without skin" are inhumane in the actions that they convict.
DeleteI really like this idea and agree. When we looked at those slides a couple weeks ago about the Narrative of the Happy slave I connected that to your comment. Maybe a better narrative than that of a happy slave is one of a strong slave.
DeleteAt first I thought that when Beloved talked about crouching she was talking about how she was killed so young and still hadn't yet learned to walk, and that maybe she was crouching almost as if she was still in fear of the white people and possibly of the part of Sethe that killed her. However, after listening to the reading, the crouching seems more malicious, almost as if Beloved is crouching so that she is always ready. That just like a predator does to its prey, that Beloved is crouching and waiting for a time to pounce. I wonder when that time might be? Or what else the crouching could symbolize?
ReplyDeleteLots of language of things circling around the neck...
ReplyDeleteI thought it was strange that Beloved says that Sethe's face is hers. There are also strange lines about "who am you?" where there seems to some conflict over identity. Why do you think there is no clarification of identity? I think it is especially strange that we never know who is talking in chapter 5 of part 2.
ReplyDelete