1. Warming up with three good things
2. Offering you the film version of the Clearing scene with Baby Suggs
a. Close reading: What specific elements in this scene interest you?
b. Zooming out a little: What are the qualities and purposes of this space? Why does Morrison name it "the Clearing"? Who used to govern this space? Who governs it now? What does this shift mean?
c. Considering broader themes: In the larger sense of the novel so far, what purposes might this scene serve? What do you think Morrison wants us to understand better or differently (about slavery? memory? pain? freedom? ownership?)?
3. Discussing Chapters 9-12 in Beloved in a silent Socratic
4. Wrapping up with each group's best questions, epiphanies, and kudos
HW:
1. Please read Chapters 13, 14 and 15 and complete your reading ticket for Socratic on Friday.
2. If you are absent on Tuesday, please find 40 minutes to complete the timed writing by Thursday so that you can participate in workshop.
3. If you are absent on Friday, please bring your reading ticket with you on Thursday or Monday after break; be sure to check the scribing on the blog to see what you missed.
On page 129 when the rain is pouring over the prison camp in Georgia, what do you think this water represents? Our book this summer told us to look especially at moments of water.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you brought this up. And it's not only water--it's a flood. I think the iniquity in this scene is partially wiped out by the flood (as floods in the Bible and Greek mythology are often used to wipe the slate clean). The water that almost kills Paul D and his chain gang is also what enables them to escape the horrors of their imprisonment.
DeleteWhat is interesting about this part to me is actually the mud aspect of it. The water is supposed to be cleansing yet it only brings mud. Immense amounts of mud that make the men unable to move much at all. So the water ends up being trapping rather than cleansing. A unique dichotomy from what we know water to represent.
DeleteSo far in the book we have seen water represent rebirth and I think this holds partially true here as well. Paul D and the other prisoners are being reborn from the harsh servitude they faced into freedom and the water provides the opportunity for this. I think it is interesting however that they have to crawl through mud which is dirty and not the clean thing associated with rebirth. Perhaps the dirt represents the difficulties of slavery and the rain makes it less confining and allows them to be rebirth out of it?
DeleteAlso, in case you're having trouble picturing what a slave chain gang looked like, I just posted an original image of it on today's class blog (Blogger wouldn't let me copy it into my reply).
DeleteI think that it's interesting that Morrison describes both the rain in Georgia and the snow in this section. I think that the water was kind of a double edge sword in a way. It was the reason the slaves were able to escape, but it was also an awful part of the escape and seemed to be one of the factors holding them back. They had to dive into their own feces that was mixed with the water and go through the water in order to get to their freedom and in that way the water was a factor of resistance. I wonder if Morrison might be using snow in this same way somehow? That the residents of 124 are going to have to go through some serious muck in order to achieve a greater sense of freedom.
DeleteI remember Foster said that being bathed in water was generally associated with baptism or a rebirth moment. In this case, I think it’s a perfect example of rebirth as Paul D.’s life changed for the better. Generally I think people believe baptism and rebirth are associated with a positive shift. I’ve been wondering about other instances of water. In other major water scenes, the positive growth of rebirth or baptism doesn’t happen. It doesn’t seem like Beloved’s birth is a positive force or the scene with the turtles. I’m beginning to believe Morrison is using water coupled with irony. She might be using our expectation that water is good against us. It could mean a regressive movement rather than a forward movement because of the presence of the irony.
DeleteI like how water is incorporated into this book because water is often associated with rebirth and cleansing. In this instance these black slaves are imprisoned for wrong reasons and they are given a chance to escape and start a new life. This is complete rebirth from them because they are going from rock bottom to starting a completely new life and changing who they are. This rebirth is messy and dirty but they come out clean and free.
DeleteDo Paul D and Denver share similar weaknesses? How does this effect their relationship?
ReplyDeleteI think that both Paul D and Denver are manipulated by Beloved in different ways. Beloved's manipulation of Paul D is more obvious because of her sexual "control" over him that left him powerless, but she also manipulates Denver in a way that seems to leave Denver dependent on Beloved. I think that they would be able to bond over this but instead it weakens their relationship even more.
DeleteI think they share similar weaknesses. They both seem to depend on attention from Sethe to feel wanted within the family and seem discontent sharing her. I felt that the carnival was a good step for them because it started a path towards friendship, but now with the entrance of Beloved into the relationship they are less willing to cooperate because Beloved is getting the most attention from Sethe and taking away what they both want.
DeleteHow do the characters deal with difficult things from their past? Which way is better?
ReplyDeleteI think that Sethe is a lot more open to thinking about the past as she can often be seen retelling stories and having flashbacks to her times at Sweet Home. Paul D however seems to suppress his emotions and memories as he does not want to think about the past. Personally I think that Sethe's way of dealing with it is better because the past never really goes away. Paul tries to get the past to go away by driving the ghost out of the house, but then the ghost comes back in the form of Beloved, showing him that no matter what he does he can never get rid of the past.
DeleteSethe seems to want to process the past by just thinking through it by herself while Paul D keeps all of those memories locked in him tabacco tin where his heart should be. I think that Sethe's way of working through her past is better because it allows her to talk to others in order to work through it.
DeleteI found the description of Paul D's dealings with his past to be the most interesting and in some ways the best. Morrison tells the story of his past before freedom and the last words regarding it on page 133 hit me the most. "It was some time before he could put Alfred, Georgia, Sixo, schoolteacher, Halle, his brothers, Sethe, Mister, the taste of iron, the sight of butter, the smell of hickory, note-book paper, one by one, into the tobacco tin lodged in his chest. By the time he got to 124 nothing in this world could pry it open." Previous to this chapter we do not as readers know much about why Paul D has been able to leave his past there, and this is finally the moment where it is revealed. His past both at Sweet Home and in Georgia and all along the way was devastating and disturbing. I love that Morrison uses the metaphor of the tobacco tin being unable to be pried open because it shows that it's still locked up inside of him but that it was so hard to put those memories in there in the first place that now they are locked up too tight to be released.
DeleteOne thing I found interesting regarding the past is Paul D's tobacco box. I thought is was strange how after Beloved "cursed" Paul D he started to act very insecure, uneasy, and vulnerable. Later, after being approached by Beloved he mentions that his tobacco box opened up p138. I think the Paul's box may represent his past and all of the suffering and pain he went through. On page 137 he talks about his box being "Rusted shut," and that we wouldn't have to worry about it again maybe implying that as long as his past is locked away and closed, he never will have to face it. However, once Paul is manipulated by Beloved his box opens and he experiences horrific memories and begins to feel helpless. I wonder if Paul really believes his box dictates how he handles his past or is his mind playing tricks on him.
DeletePaul D and Sethe have some similar ways of dealing with it because they bot choose to keep it close to them. Sethe only talks about her past when she's vulnerable and even then she only does so in small parts and anecdotes. Paul D keeps his past closed up inside, much like the tobacco tin (which when it's "opened" causes him to go a bit crazy much like Sethe's husband Halle). Denver uses her Emerald Room out in the woods to cope with her loneliness caused by the past and also keeps herself secluded in her room most of the time. They all have their own ways of dealing with it but one character who can't is Halle. Paul D reveals that Halle has gone crazy after losing Sethe, probably because he didn't have a way of dealing with the past. And when Sethe hears this it shakes her because she probably hasn't thought about what happened to him too much and thinking about it has brought back emotions from the path that she has been ignoring because they're too hard to confront, hence why she locks them away rather than confront them.
DeleteIs it the space of "the clearing" that lets people clear their minds or is it Baby Suggs words and her presence?
ReplyDeleteI think that Morrison names this place in nature the Clearing because of its effect on peoples minds. As seen in the film, the Clearing is a very vibrant colorful space which may lead to people feeling free and comfortable. I also think that they way Baby Suggs leads this "meditation" also has to do with the freeing of mind. Emotions such as laughing, dancing, and crying all create different feelings and when put together they become something beautiful and unified. Both the surroundings and Baby Suggs create a place that feels like an escape and that you can release the burdens inside you.
DeleteTo relate to the quote Ms. Leclaire put on the board, I think the people that come to the clearing are still learning how to claim ownership of their freedom, so they need someone to give them some kind of permission before they can let loose and be human. Baby Suggs fills that role for them.
DeleteI agree with Jessie. There's also a clearing away of the notion of being owned. I put this quote up on the board: "Freeing yourself is one thing; claiming ownership of that freed self was another." If your body parts are owned by somebody else your entire life (your hands are chained, your mouth is filled with an iron bit, your milk is taken, your private parts are raped, your back is whipped, etc), it must take a conscious practice of actively reclaiming your own body parts in order to be free.
DeleteI think that it is Baby Suggs' presence because when she died, the clearing was no longer used for the purpose it was originally used for and it became a place for large white-gatherings rather than the cleansing place it was before. The other reason it seems like it's her presence rather than the place is seen with 124. When Baby Suggs was still healthy and vibrant, the house was a place of communion, where people could go to talk and have a good time. After her death however, the house "shut down and put up with the venom of the ghost" (105) which indicates that her presence has more to do with people clearing their minds and healing than the place they were in.
DeleteI feel like the name was really well chosen because the clearing is the space between the trees, but the Clearing is the effect Baby Suggs had. For the people that gathered in the clearing, the place itself had some significance. Being protected by trees on all sides gives one the vulnerability to get out what they need to-and the trees won't mind.
DeleteWhat was the meaning behind the phrase "Red Heart" that Paul D repeatedly says during his encounter with Beloved?
ReplyDeleteI was wondering the same thing, I think that the "red heart" correlates with the "tobacco lodged in his chest". Paul D suppresses his feelings and past but when he sleeps with beloved the box is opened. So maybe the "red heart" is a symbol for Paul D opening up his past (sleeping with Beloved).
DeleteI also think the color red specifically could have some symbolism. The color has a kind of dual meaning, because sometimes it means things like love and other times it symbolizes anger. I think the color red could have to do with a wide variety of emotions.
DeleteI had a similar question on my socratic ticket. When his tin box is opened up after sex with Beloved, I think that all of the hurt and painful memories that he literally kept in a box was released and his "red heart" is his raw heart from the emotional and physical abuse he went through in the past. I think the "red heart" represents all of the emotions he held in there rushing out that he suppressed.
DeleteIt seems to me that "red heart" refers to Paul D's feelings and emotions. You can almost relate it back to the turtles in chapter 9 as Paul D is stuck in his shell. He feels the need to see the "sin behind him" and continues to go along with the act. This makes Paul D see that his heart has been pierced and is why he continues to repeat "red heart". This discovery awakens not only Denver, but Paul D himself.
DeletePerhaps it shows that no matter the situation, Paul D has good intentions and plans to stay true to his intentions. On a more racially focused note, It could imply that though his skin is black, everyone's heart is exactly the same. The color red usually implies love or a warm feeling, so maybe Paul D tries to use his heart as a decision maker instead of his mind
DeleteWhy does Morrison choose to alter words like memories to “rememories” (112,116) or remember to “disremember” (140)? What do this alterations imply?
ReplyDeleteReply 1, of several:
Deletere- 1. a prefix, occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, used with the meaning “again” or “again and again” to indicate repetition, or with the meaning “back” or “backward” to indicate withdrawal or backward motion: regenerate; refurbish; retype; retrace; revert.
Reply 2:
Deletea Latin prefix meaning “apart,” “asunder,” “away,” “utterly,” or having a privative, negative, or reversing force (see de-, un-2.); used freely, especially with these latter senses, as an English formative: disability; disaffirm; disbar; disbelief; discontent; dishearten; dislike; disown.
Morrison's creation of words interested me too and was one of the things I addressed on my reading ticket. The "re-" prefix can be used to indicate repetition, backwards movement, or even withdrawal. Adding "re-" to memory suggests to me that these memories pull the characters backwards and make them relive the past rather than live in the present. For some reason, the word "rememory" also makes me think a rememory is more vivid than a regular memory (maybe more like a PTSD flashback). The word "disremember" suggested to me that memories have to be repressed or altered.
DeleteI think if she used a completely separate word (like "forget" instead of "disremember"), it would show a change or some separation. However, when she just adds to a word that already exists, the original word remains a part of it. Just like their memories can never completely go away, even if they gain new ones, part of the word never goes away.
DeleteIt's interesting to me that the word "memory" isn't quite strong enough for Sethe. The addition of "re" indicates the repetition of her past visiting her (which is echoed, I think, in the way Morrison structures the book), as well as the way her memories move her backwards rather than allowing her to move forward.
DeleteAs for "dis," I feel as though the memories themselves are fragmented in the same way the bodies of the slaves are fragmented, which is the same way the entire narrative of this text is fragmented / torn asunder.
DeleteThat is interesting that “disremember” parallels the structure of the narrative. When I was playing with possible answers for “dis”, I thought she was using the main word as Bella said and piggybacking off this word to establish a meaning other than to simply forget. I imagine forget as a passive word that happens without someone actively doing the forgetting. It occurs whether or not the actor wants it to happen. I see remember as a more active word where the actor has to actively search his or her memory for a memory. I’m guessing that Morrison wanted to use the active quality of remember in terms of forgetting by adding the “dis”. I don’t think someone can actively forget something, otherwise Sethe would be doing just that. This word doesn’t make sense to me then as it seems like an impossible action.
DeleteWhat is the significance of Paul D sleeping with Beloved?
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure what the significance is because this really confused me, but I think it shows a very prominent evil in Beloved. The way that this is obviously something Paul D didn't want to do makes me think that Beloved is able to manipulate people into doing whatever she wants.
DeleteI think that it is to weaken Paul D (but Sethe might be weakened in the process too and I don't know if that is what Beloved wants).
DeleteI think that it shows how Beloved is starting to have power over Paul, much like she does with Denver and Sethe. In a way Beloved represents the past so the intimacy between Paul and Beloved shows how even though Paul would like to suppress his memories and emotions regarding his life as a slave, Beloved and 124 are slowly consuming him and he is starting to acknowledge the past.
DeleteI agree that this revealed evil in Beloved, however it makes me wonder about Paul D's true intentions as well. Sure, he didn't want to do it at first, but he went along with it even with that in mind. I feel like if he truly didn't want to sleep with Beloved, he wouldn't of. The fact that Beloved slept with Paul D, I think, reveals that Beloved wants to do something to Sethe. Yes she is attracted to her in a way, however if Beloved truly loved her she would know where to draw the line and I feel like she wants to destroy Sethe in very specific ways.
DeleteI was confused about whether Paul wanted to engage Beloved on some level or not. He seemed extremely reluctant, but then almost seemed free when he repeated the phrase "red heart". I'm not sure if the situation is entirely out of his control because of some supernatural force, or if there is a part of him that takes some satisfaction.
DeleteI feel like Paul D doesn't really have a choice, he doesn't want to sleep with Beloved but I think that based on how other male characters have been developed (and the fact that they have an extreme lust for sex) that it is innate in Paul D to have sex with any woman he encountered. In a way I feel like sex was an activity that helped the slaves feel more human, and was a temporary escape from their terrible lives. Since many slaves led awful lives they would naturally crave any escape they could get, so it might be innate in Paul D to accept sex since it might have been one of the few "positives" for him in his past. However, instead of escaping to a reality that wasn't his past, having sex with Beloved actually forces him to relive many of the memories in his "rusted tin" and furthers the idea that Beloved may not be good for the residents of 124.
DeleteI agree--it seems almost like a supernatural, reverse rape. This scene is so upsetting to me that I have to read it allegorically. If I read Beloved as a symbol of a violent past, then I can read this scene as Paul D's past overpowering him (in the same way Sethe's memory of her milk being stolen seems to overpower her). It literally pushes him out of Sethe's house, alienating him in the same way Sethe and Denver have been alienated by their community.
DeleteMost of the times sex implies power, and this probably shows the power that Beloved has not only over Paul D but also over the other people at 124.
DeleteI think one of the main purposes is Morrison giving the reader a heads up that Beloved may not always have the best intentions and that she could end up being a very manipulative character. I also think that it gives us as readers a sense of Beloved's unique powers and sense of control. I like how it started as her control just through gave but turned into a power over people. I am excited to see where this event takes the story.
DeleteDoes the clearing itself represent freedom, or is it Baby Suggs' words that allow people to escape from their reality?
ReplyDeleteThe Clearing is like a catalyst for freedom, it creates a space where they can feel free and with nature. But, Baby Suggs shows them this freedom using her sermons that she gives. The Clearing is the rest of the world but the words are the glasses that let them see it for what it is and what it can be.
DeleteThis is really interesting to think about. I personally believe that it's Baby Suggs's words that allow people to escape from their reality. A place is only what people make of it and what thoughts or feelings people associate with it. So I think that the Clearing wouldn't be a place that represents freedom without Baby Suggs.
DeleteI think that the clearing represents hopeful freedom because it seems to alleviate all of the tensions that happen in the daily life. So though it might be an escape from reality, it is a more permanent escape. I see the clearing as a psychiatrist.
DeleteI was thinking about the same thing. I think that Baby Suggs joyful presence and strong words are what enable people to unite, but I also think that this space is special. The Clearing that we just saw in the film is very green and bright and seems like a great space for people to go and clear their mind and let go of the worries that were weighing them down.
DeleteI think Baby Suggs is what helps people find their freedom, but I think the area of the clearing space is what truly gives them their freedom. It is an area for them to be free of their worry and hardships.
DeleteGreat question (and responses)! I think the saddest part of this chapter is that the vengeful, choking nature of the ghost / Beloved now occupies this space. Whatever "clearing" Baby Suggs offered the community seems to be gone. In fact, the entire community seems to be gone, in a way. Sethe and Denver are surrounded by houses of people in perhaps similar situations, but they are completely isolated. Denver can't even go to school. I think the clearing was a space for people to clear themselves of their invisible chains, but it was also a space for them to connect to each other. Now, it seems to be another space of suffocating loneliness.
DeleteOne thing that particularly intrigued me during this reading assignment was how this whole time we have thought that Beloved was the dead baby ghost. But I think it is obvious that Beloved is something else entirely. Her obsession with Paul D and her not letting him sleep and controlling him, and then sleeping with him suggests that she is there for a different reason than to visit Sethe. My question is that because Beloved has associated herself with death, control, and sex and she clearly no longer embodies a dead baby ghost, why is she there? How will this affect Denver, Paul D and Sethe?
ReplyDeleteOne thing about Beloved is that she is almost always the center of most conflicts that arise, especially when she's with Denver. Since Beloved first got there Denver hasn't visited her Emerald Room that she would use to escape loneliness. While that can be seen as a good thing, she isn't using it so she must be feeling better, I believe that Beloved is destroying her freedom by keeping her from the thing that she loved most. This is supported by the fact that she slept with Paul D, "opening" his tin box of a heart and causing him to go mad, saying "red heart" over and over again. She also possibly strangles Sethe in The Clearing which was a place that was sacred to her because of what Baby Suggs would do there. It seems to me that she is only there to stir trouble like the memories of their slavery, haunting them forever.
DeleteThis is a really great question and I'm not sure what the answer is. I like what Noah said and I agree that there is a pattern in Beloved destroying something in each of these characters. I wonder how far she will go before she stops?
DeleteWhy does Paul D call the place his heart belongs a tobacco tin? Why can Beloved open it, and why does he repeat the phrase "red heart"?
ReplyDeleteI think that Paul D calls his heart a tabacco tin because its a place that he can put his memories and traumatic events while being able to close the tin so he doesn't have to think about them but, he can still hold them close to him.
DeleteI also was wondering these things and was unable to come to a conclusion about the "red heart" bit; however, I don't think it is Beloved that opened it to start but rather Sethe. on page 138 the tin is said to be losing its rust and slowly opening and I took the tin to be symbolic of Paul D's past life. Something so horrible that he has locked it away forever (or perhaps all the rain in Georgia caused him to purposely close up).Regardless in revisiting his past with Sethe and looking at her own tin heart, they have both slowly rattled loose.
DeleteTobacco is very addicting for people and I think that's what sex is for Paul D. He used to be addicted, but now since he has been with Sethe, the tobacco tin had been rusted over, including his old memories, until Beloved opened it up again. I think that red heart means his old memories are coming back to him and hurting his heart.
DeleteI’m guessing that Beloved’s real name is actually Red Heart. She said he would call it during their intercourse. She also didn’t leave when he said Beloved. This would indicate that if she were telling the truth when she claimed “she would leave when he said her name”, Beloved isn’t her real name.
DeleteI was wondering about the "Red Heart" too. I don't really know what it means but I noticed in the book that the color red has a lot to do with emotions (like the red velvet with Amy represented hope), so maybe the red heart represents Paul's emotions, and it being released from the tin could represent Paul letting go of his suppressed feelings and memories.
DeleteThis scene was pretty confusing to me as well, there seems to be quite a bit of symbolism involved. I think that having the tobacco can is similar to today's phrase "a frozen heart" where nothing can truly effect him because he has locked away all deep emotions; this connects a bit to his earlier comment "I only love each thing a little bit, that way when it dies hopefully there is some love left over". But much like a frozen heart can be melted, the tobacco can can be opened provided the person has the right combination of factors. Beloved possesses these factors which may range from having no past to being something new to needing Paul and their combination is what unlocks the can. To me the phrase "red heart" suggests that Paul D's heart is now bared for everyone to see. He is no longer protected and the raw redness of his heart is visible and can be effected by all.
DeleteOn page 133, Paul D just escaped from Alfred, Georgia. He is described as a "dark ragged figure guided by the blossoming plums." What is the significance of him being described as this? Sethe has been described as dark as well, is Morrison making a connection between the two of them?
ReplyDeleteI really like your connection with the description and what it could mean for each character. Focusing more on Paul D, I don't think that he is a "dark ragged figure". Instead I think he is easily manipulated by the actions of others, especially by Beloved. He may not be a dark figure, but dark figures definitely shape him, making him appear as a dark figure.
DeleteFor my Socratic ticket, I focused on the importance of the "clearing" that Sethe cherishes so much. I first envisioned the clearing as a religious building or monument, yet I quickly realized how a lot of African Americans of the time repressed religion as if god had bestowed the suffering upon them. I found that the clearing has such a literal name because it is a way for Sethe to move away from her past and try to look for the future. In page 103, everything that Baby Suggs says appears to be words of joy not of hate. She says that you should love yourself for who you are and for your color regardless of what others think. Therefore, I think the clearing is how Sethe tries to pursue the future.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that Sethe uses the clearing to look to the future, yet it is a symbol from her past.
DeleteSo far, the question of whether loving is worth the pain of eventually losing that love has been brought up by multiple characters, especially regarding Sethe and her love for Denver (both Ella and Paul D holding the opinion that one shouldn't hold love for anything as much as Sethe seems to hold for Denver). The only time that a strong love has been encouraged so far has been when Baby Suggs is delivering her speech on self-love in the Clearing. Does freedom allow love, or is love what frees you?
ReplyDeleteI feel as though the best answer would be that freedom allows love. Beloved has some kind of possession over Sethe and this isn't true love. While Sethe was still stuck in 124 it did not have full control over her, and she was truly able to love Denver. Beloved seems to be the one who destroys this as she also takes Paul D and convinces him to lose the faith of Sethe. Beloved takes freedoms away and in turn, takes love away. Beloved is even able to take Denver's love of Sethe. Denver is now almost dependent on Beloved and feels left out if she is not with her.
DeleteThere is a bible verse that claims that there is no fear in love. I think this verse and theme you are hitting at are bird’s of a feather. When you allow for love to happen, fear and pain lose their hold and the shackles fear constructs are broken. I believe that love allows for freedom as it reduces the binding effect of fear. I think freedom allows love but doesn’t imply love occurs. It allows the possibility but doesn’t establish love for sure.
DeleteI don't know if I can answer your question or not but one part that I especially linked to your comment was when Amy (a free white girl) saved Sethe (a black slave) by bringing her feet back to life. I wouldn't necessarily say that you have to be free to love (after all Baby Suggs taught a pretty strong message of love in the clearing), but I also think that being free (in Amy's case) doesn't hurt.
DeleteI think that love is what frees a person, because Sethe has an unconditional love for Denver. However the only flaw we see, is that Sethe never talks about her past with Denver. I believe that this is because Denver has freed Sethe from her pain in the past. Sethe's efforts to keep the past away from Denver is due to the fact that Denver is Sethe's only outlet from the past. So to keep the past away from Denver, in a sort, keeps her "pure".
DeleteWhile I'm not sure what the book's message is regarding loving others yet, I do think self-love is freeing to the former slaves. I think part of "claiming ownership" of the free self is learning to love the flesh that has been treated hatefully by others.
DeleteI really like this question, however I feel like this is a very difficult question to answer because it can be argued both ways. In regards to Sethe, I think that her freedom is allowing her to love, but her love is controlling her. When freed, Sethe was allowed to do what she pleased and create a life for her and Denver. This also allowed for Paul D to show up years later, finally allowing Sethe love since the time Halle left. However, this love is controlling her. The love for Paul D is forcing her to re-live her past when before she "forgot" about some of the things that happened to her. She is looking at Beloved in a way that is making her oblivious to her true intentions. I feel like with the love Sethe feels, it is not allowing her to be "free" in a sense.
DeleteI don't think love is willing to wait for freedom. Love may be easier to cultivate in a free environment, but that won't stop love from manifesting itself in a dangerous environment. I'm also not sure if love can be described as freeing in Beloved. Love kept Sethe on the track to 124, trying to get back to her children and Baby Suggs. She was freed from slavery, and stayed at 124. One is far more desirable than the other, but it still isn't freedom.
DeleteLooking back at some of the other instances of the color red we see it mentioned as "red baby blood," "flame red tongue," and "carmine velvet," and now the "red heart" that Paul D continually describes. I am still trying to put together the meaning of red as all of these descriptions are very different. Does anyone have any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to figure this out too. I feel like the color red may symbolize some kind of rawness or primitiveness. The blood, the flame red tongue, and the red heart are all essential human traits. The velvet is also, in a way, a need for Amy, since she has been so fixated on it for so long. So maybe it's some kind of need or human trait? I think Morrison also described autumn as red a few times, but I'm not sure how that would fit in.
DeleteAn idea I had regarding this is that they are all different shades of red. Amy makes this evident when she describes the exact coloring of "carmine velvet", Sethe describes the tongue as "flame-red", and blood is a very distinctive shade of red. I think that Morrison may be suggesting that all these instances are tied together with a similar emotion or motive yet there are subtle differences in the emotion that lead to different results.
DeleteThe color red in Beloved seems to have various meanings. Denver's red velvet would seem to represent a bright future, and the red heart represents the emotions of Paul D truly coming out. But it seems to represent mortality in a way. Red is a color that has the connotation of life and death, or presence and absence, and that can be seen throughout the novel. The red roses in front of the carnival represent the arrival of the carnival and the new family that would be Sethe, Paul D, and Denver, but they also smell of death
DeleteAlso I was thinking that in all those instances the color red was used as an adjective describing something a noun so perhaps it isn't the red that we should be connecting but the blood, the velvet, the heart and the tongue that Morrison actually wants us to look at.
DeleteIs Beloved only a representation of Sethe's dead daughter, or of a history of the people that went through the horrors of slavery?
ReplyDeleteI think Beloved represents a history of slavery because it's something that can never be escaped from no matter how hard people try to forget it happened. Much like how the history of slavery is inescapable, the characters in this book cannot escape Beloved.
DeleteUp until this point in the book, I believe that Beloved is a representation of Sethe's daughter because I do not see Beloved relating to anyone else. I believe that Beloved is a representation of Sethe's past.
DeleteI think that Beloved could be not just representative of the people who went through the horrors of slavery, but a representation of the horrors themselves. I think this is why she is the only one able to open up Paul D's "tin" and why Denver is so fascinated with her. Paul D doesn't want to look into the past but Beloved is able to force him there because every interaction with her is like him directly interacting with the past. And Denver is extremely fascinated by Beloved because she hasn't been able to learn much from her mother about the past.
DeleteAfter seeing how Beloved interacted with Sethe, I don't believe that she is Sethe's dead daughter. Beloved has benevolent intentions, that we don't quite know about yet. I agree with you and think that Beloved may represent another person who went through the horrors of slavery, but as to why she has benevolent intentions is a mystery.
DeleteBaby Suggs early on also describes the ghosts haunting every house as remnants of slavery (6), but because the baby's ghost in particular is spoken of and chosen as the subject, it, to me, appears to represent the horrors remaining of slavery after the fact.
DeleteDo you think that Beloved is there to prevent Sethe from recovering and healing from her past? It seems that Beloved is there to remind her of the hurt she went through and to keep her from suppressing it.
ReplyDeleteI think Beloved is there in order to represent getting rid of your demons. Sethe locked them away inside of her, and now Beloved is here to either force Sethe to get over her demons, or be swallowed up by them.
DeleteI think Scott has a good point- Beloved doesn't bring up the past in a way that makes Sethe clam up, she does it in a way that allows Sethe to talk about it.
DeleteI think Beloved is there to make Sethe look her past in the eye. Sethe has been trying for so long to let her "rememories" fade into nothingness, so as to erase her past in a sense. Beloved is the reminder that you erasing your past, the experiences that led you to be the person you are today, is impossible. Part of facing your past is experiencing the hurt feelings that it may bring, but once you get past that, you'll be able to live the rest of your life at a much better state than if you were to suppress it. Both Sethe and Paul D have gone through a change in philosophy when it comes to dealing with their past since Beloved has come in their life.
DeleteIs Sethe consciously denying the comparisons she sees between Beloved and the baby ghost, like after the scene in the clearing where she is strangled? Or is she blocking these details out reflexively without even noticing?
ReplyDeleteSeth seems to be consciously disregarding the coincidences connecting Beloved and the baby ghost, as she on page 116 has the suspicion of Beloved's hands being like the baby ghost's. That specifically she notices and dismisses, but other things she subconsciously dismisses.
DeleteOn page 111, we are told, "Sethe had had twenty-eight days -- the travel of one whole moon -- of unslaved life." This period of time spanned from Sethe's arrival at 124 to the almost crawling? baby's death. Beyond physical slavery, what other forms of "enslavement" is Morrison addressing in this novel? Which characters are free, yet still enslaved and how does this impact their lives?
ReplyDeleteCorrection: "crawling-already? baby"
DeleteWhy does Beloved disappear in that instance where her and Denver go to the cold room? And why does she choose to return?
ReplyDelete